Dancers only need 2 years on danceline! That's It! | Ep 10

How do you actually prepare for HBCU dancelines AND a professional dance career? Ebony breaks it down: 

In this episode of Major Business, we sit down with Ebony Harris, Head Coach of Jonesboro HS Majestic Dancing Dolls and Founder of @onthe50_: HBCU Danceline Combine to discuss HBCU danceline prep, recruiting, cross-training for dancers, and how to prepare for dance in general BEYOND HIGH SCHOOL at the next level.

Her mission is clear: to help high school dancers see the possibilities, whether that’s HBCU danceline, college dance teams, professional dance, or concert companies.

If you're a dancer, coach, or parent looking for real guidance on how to make a dance team, improve dance technique, and train for HBCU auditions, this episode is for you.

In this episode, we cover:

HBCU danceline training & recruiting and how to properly prepare
Why cross-training in dance (ballet, jazz, modern, hip hop, African, heels, improvisation) is essential
The importance of dance technique, performance quality, and presentation (hair, makeup, confidence)
An unpopular coaching opinion: why dancers only need 2 years on danceline to succeed beyond high school
Why she focuses on technical dance training over danceline style in the offseason
How dance coaches can recruit dancers and stay visible in today’s dance world
How to incorporate flag twirling into a dance team without hiring additional staff
Tips for dance parents on supporting their dancers and preparing for the next level

This conversation is packed with insight for anyone serious about dance training, HBCU dance teams, and building a long-term dance career.

Whether your goal is:
✔️ HBCU Danceline
✔️ College Dance Team
✔️ Professional Cheer/Dance
✔️ Concert Dance (Alvin Ailey-style companies)
✔️ Commercial Dance Industry

This episode will help you understand what it really takes.

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

We have the right to be cocky, to be very honest. However, we ain't stupid. Forget dance line training in the summer. We won't be doing that at all. Like, I cut it out completely. You as a parent, have to be able to say, I trust you. I believe you have my child's best interest. You might not even be there by the time you see the results of the work that you're doing. The idea that you're gonna come here where I want excellence, I need you to be excellent everywhere. Even if you don't want to be a professional dancer, dance for Cardi B. Beyoncé, dance for Ailey or whatever, even if those are not your goals, you have a goal of dancing for a college program, and the requirements for those teams are increasing tenfold each and every year. Like there are people who come from Clayton County who are now dancing on stages with people like Usher and Chris Brown and Cardi B and Missy Elliott, and they came from this neighborhood. They have something to share with you. Whether you think you want to be in their position or not, I want you to see that it's possible. Let somebody else guide you. But be supportive. Be supportive and cut the check for the other person.

unknown 1:16

Cut the check.

Speaker 1 1:24

This is the Major Business Podcast, where we talk all things auxiliary dance. We're talking strategy structure, leadership, performance, and training. And I am your host, Vershion Lee. And today we have a very special guest on our episode 10. All right. Let me go ahead and introduce to you our special guest. She's a veteran high school dance coach, and she's currently coaching the majestic dancing dolls of the world-famed Jonesboro r High School Majestic Marching Cardinals. She's a former 14K dancer at Bethune Cookman University. She's the founder of On the 50 and the original HBCU Dance Line Combine. She's a serial behind-the-scenes girl. She makes all the magic happen, but she'll never tell you about it. Um, let's go ahead and welcome to the room, Miss Ebony Harris. Hi. Hey girl, hey. I know right now the talk of the town um is the HBCU dance line combine because that just happened this year, February 28th. From your faculty to the dancers, the parents, and everyone that I encounter at the at the event, they all thoroughly enjoy um the event. So can you just talk a little bit about how you started, why you started, and you know, so your takeaways from this current okay.

Speaker 2:54

So three years ago, or really four years ago. Four years ago, I was still knee deep in high school coaching. Um, I had dancers who were graduating, leaving, going to college. I knew of dancers that were leaving, going to college, but everybody or majority of them had no answers. They had no plan. Everybody was starting late, essentially. They were they hadn't been preparing, they hadn't been training, they hadn't been doing the research. Um, and when they were walking into rooms that I was in, you know, I was shocked. Like, why are you not physically um showing up, meaning your appearance? Why are you why is your hair not done? Why is your makeup not done? Why don't you have on proper attire? Why don't you know about the school that you're planning on going to or the team, or you have zero information about the things that you're saying you want? And I just saw a need for that education to take place, to be given. I feel like there was just a gap between high school dance and collegiate opportunities that come after, and somehow, somehow, they weren't being provided the information anymore. For me, I feel like I can speak for a lot of people that grew up in our, you know, I graduated what, 2003. So if you were around that time and before, I feel like our coaches had us prepared for what was to come next. We knew how to operate, how to walk into rooms. Um, we knew the caliber of skill that was required to be wherever we were trying to go. Like we weren't going into situations blind. And the combine just came from that. Just an idea that, and also just knowing that there were young ladies or just dancers in general who had dreams of going multiple places, but they felt like the opportunity to do so was hindered. I can't audition for both schools because they're gonna look at me a certain way, or I can't talk to this school and this school because they're gonna think I'm being, you know, shady. And I was like, that's not how it goes, that's not how it works.

Speaker 1 5:20

Who like who told me?

Speaker 5:22

I mean, there were students, yeah. Like I'm talking about, but there were students who were just like, yeah, I just she's gonna think this. So I'm like, I don't, I don't know who told you that. I don't know where that idea came from. And I cannot say that it's completely untrue, but what I can say is it's not a hundred percent fact. And there are opportunities for dancers, for students who are interested in dancing in college to be recruited by multiple schools. That's and that's your right. You're not just applying to one school. So why would you just apply to dance at one school? You should take advantage of every opportunity that's being presented to you. And so I wanted to bring all of that, the education as well as the opportunity for recruitment in one place. And that's how the combine was created. I did my research, I looked at like the actual NFL combine. Like, what does that look like? What does that structure look like? What does it actually mean to be, you know, what does a combine mean? Um I did the research of like who else, like what other organizations are out there that are doing something similar or the same. Like, I, you know, some people step into this industry or just entrepreneurship in general without doing research, without realizing or understanding what's going on around them. All those things are important. The timing of it, the location of it, um, the the who we're trying to reach. Um, so the demographic, like all that's important. If you're skipping those steps, you're doing yourself and the people that you are, you know, attempting to advocate for a disservice. So I did all of that. I did all those things before I was like, you know, okay, this is what I really want to do. And I did it. I didn't see I didn't see it in Georgia, I didn't see it in Atlanta. Um, and so I brought that to Atlanta because I want that's what I wanted to see and what I thought was needed. So that's how the combine was created, and it has grown. Um, even in these short three years, it has grown from that idea to something even more. Um, it's not just about recruitment, um, it's more about education and the and the entire picture, what that looks like for dancers, um, the options that you all have and the reach that you know can be obtained coming from this HBCU dance line world.

Speaker 1 7:43

So yeah, I see that you also are very much into um the network aspect of it. Like throughout the combine, I see you the girls are doing activities to get to know each other and different things like that. So, what does that actually mean? Like, why is that important to you that they um not only just have these opportunities, but that they interact. And what have you seen come of this?

Speaker 8:11

You know, it's cliche, your network is your net worth. Um, I feel like the more reach you have, meaning the more people you know, the more people you have in your corner, the more opportunities that will come your way. It might not be an immediate, you know, um something you see immediately, but what I like to stress and what I like to teach is that you never know where you're going to end up. You never know what door you're gonna walk into. Um, you never know who's watching you. And so them being able to connect with the coaches, number one, builds relationships. You know, I think some people ignore that part of the recruitment process. Just because you have a decent program or a stellar program does not mean that you are a welcoming program, a program that I want to be a part of. And what I think a lot of people do that kind of, I won't say it hinders them, but it leaves the door open for somebody else to walk in, is that they don't do the recruitment, the networking, they don't show up. You know, they think that the name is gonna carry them. And for a lot of programs, or for some programs, it does. But I feel like at some point that's going to end. And you waited, you know, so you left the door open for these other programs who are hungrier, who are engaging, who are looking to build and want to be and want to take their program to the next level. You're leaving the door open for them to take your talent. And so the networking is beneficial for both parties, for both sides. It's beneficial for the student because you're trying to see who do I want to spend my time with? Do I want to spend my time around these young ladies who are not talking to me, who are not, you know, trying to engage me, who are not trying to tell me more about the school, about their experience, their standoffish, you know, for whatever reason. Maybe they're nervous. I don't know. But, or do I want to go over here where I feel welcome, where they are, you know, talking to me. They're making me feel like, you know, this might be a good place for me to grow and educate myself in more dance. And I'm spending four years here and I'm spending a great amount of time with this particular group. And so the networking is important for each side because as a coach, you want them to be able to see more of you, see more of your team, start to build some trust. Um, and then as the dancer, I want, I'm trying, I'm getting to know, like I'm getting to know where I'm going to spend my next four years. And anytime I talk to dancers, I hear a lot of that. Why did you choose this school? Why did you decide to not go with this, you know, school? And they say things like, I didn't enjoy. They didn't, I didn't feel welcome on campus, or I didn't feel like this was the campus I wanted to spend my next four years. I didn't feel like whatever. Um, so I think networking is played a major role because not only is it going to benefit you, benefit you in the future when opportunities arise, because again, you never know who you're working with, but in the immediate, in the immediate, I'm making decisions about my future. And I'm thinking about you. And if you are not making me feel important, I'm gonna go ahead and go to the next.

Speaker 1 11:38

So um, the thing that you're mentioning is funny because although it for some reason in dance we think one way, but in in sports, all of these things are are they're normal. I mean, recruiting is normal, or like it's very normal, or it's normal, and then going to different schools to visit. That's normal, like all the different teams, yeah.

Speaker 12:02

And they're spending money on that. I'm not saying they're these, you know, these programs aren't spending money. I I don't even want to get into finances and HBCUs and dance. I don't even want to talk about that. That's just because that's another, yeah, another layer, right? But those programs, those athletic programs are spending money to get those top recruits into the door. They're not just saying, Oh, we've been the champions for the last 10 years. We have the right to be cocky, to be very honest. However, we ain't stupid. We're not dumb. You know, I know I gotta put in some work. I gotta get this young man over here, or I gotta get this athlete over here. And so, what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna let me show you the campus, let me show you our nice facilities, let me show you, you know, what your life could be if you come here. It's so the idea that we are not a part of the recruitment for that institution. It's a blind, it's kind of crazy to think that you play a major role, especially now. HBCU bands play a major role in the recruitments for these institutions. We're bringing in a lot of money for these schools. So it is imperative that we take that seriously. And it's it's our job as a coach, not just the job of the band director, it's also my job to make this look enticing, you know, to and to and to be able to back that up, not just, you know, oh, show you something, you know, this nice picture, and then it really be some BS. But I want to entice you and I want to be able to back that up with the quality of the program, with the other work that we're gonna do in the community, with you know, the work or the opportunities I'm gonna provide for you. Like all that plays a role. And so everybody has to step it up. And I'm not just talking about the smaller schools, you know, I'm talking about everybody because I feel like everybody got something to work on. Every single program. Because I reach out, I communicate with, I talk to a lot of, there are what over 50 plus HBCUs that have dance programs, not just dance lines, but including like the dance departments as well. Um, because there are some schools who have dance departments that don't have dance lines. So I'm talking about all HBCUs that provide dance education or a dance program. And I hear from half of them throughout the year, and then I hear from even less consistently, um, just about recruitment. And I really do want to shout out um, and this is no shade to anybody, but there are some programs that show up everywhere all the time. South Carolina State shows up everywhere all the time, Tuskegee shows up everywhere all the time, Benedict shows up everywhere all the time. If I miss you, it is no slight. I just don't have that type of a brain. But understand, like there are other programs that are not showing up at all.

Speaker 1 15:02

Yeah.

Speaker 15:02

At all in any way. And then it shows in the product to me that is a reflection of your program. And I watch, I look and see throughout the season, I'm like, yeah, that that tracks. It tracks that you're a field show, you know what I'm saying? It tracks that your numbers are okay. It tracks because your recruitment was questionable, your enter, your engagement was non-existent. Um, so even if it's not me, I encourage every dancer, every coach, high school, and collegiate to do your part, do the research, show up because it's popular now, it's heavily popular now. And it was, you know, it was cool back in the day, but it's heavily popular now. There's gonna come a time where there's gonna be a shift, and I don't want for the shift to affect us in a way that we lose programs because we don't have the numbers, we don't have the the interest, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 16:13

So yeah, I I I feel like um in order to maintain those sport programs that are winning, right, they have the record, but they're still recruiting, it's because they want to maintain, right? And then the other ones that are because everybody, all of them are recruit recruiting, but the ones that say the program has been down and they're trying to get up, well, they're gonna be recruiting, right? So everybody's recruiting for for various reasons, and so in this, the but the girls, like you said, but the girls see it, and with you being a high school coach, you you have a squad of you know amazingly talented young ladies, but the opportunities sometimes seem slim, and it's kind of like you see it firsthand because you're their coach, you're not just an outsider, so you're seeing the lack of you know, like you said, of people showing up. So, yes, I do also wish that we will adopt that same principle because it's necessary, you know, like it's necessary, and even for parents, like to see the people show up and to see because they want to take their kids to these schools. The girls are dying to go to these to these, you know, some of these big schools are dying to go, but I mean, you know, like you said, they just sometimes they don't feel the need, um, or maybe maybe it is the funding for whatever reason, we don't know. Um, but like you said, it will shift, and so we just hope that everybody will get on board. What I do want to ask you next, though, is about the technical training. I know for your girls, you do a lot of cross-training. Um, and when I say cross-training, for those that don't know or don't, you know, don't understand or know about the dancing dolls at Jonesboro High School, but the girls train real hard, right? And they're not just doing choreography and it's not just field show choreography, there's variety, right? And so, what I also understand and know about your program as well is that you are making sure that these girls are prepared to go anywhere, not just HBCU. So, why is that important to you? And and and I mean, if you want to give a little bit about your process that maybe could help another coach see your side and maybe want to implement these things into their program.

Speaker 18:33

Yes, I think anything that I've done, whether it was coaching or producing, um, it's always been because I wanted to see something and I wasn't seeing it, or I wasn't being given the opportunity, right? To be a part. And so I would just go out and do it on my own. Like, let me just go create it myself then. Like, if I can't join your team, I maybe you think I'm not qualified, or maybe you just don't, maybe I'm just not interested. Whatever it is, I want to see it and I'm not seeing it, so let me go create it. And when I came on to Jonesboro, I had already been coaching um for a number of years with other high schools, but it was different. Um, shout out to Linnell Goodwin, who is my director of bands and has been for the last eight years. His vision, like we were aligned. Everybody that was on staff, we were all on the same page of wanting to be great. So I felt like, okay, this is an opportunity for me to actually do it out, you know, do what I want to do. Like I have some room to to do some things over here. And um, Jonesboro was not known for being technical. Um, they weren't known for being the best. And I had to shift that. And so I was started to make it, I was, I started to change the standards of the program. You know, I think maybe after the first or second year, I had to change the GPA requirement. Um, and I I say this because it's all important, it all changes and makes a difference in the program, the overall picture of the program. It's not just about the dance. So I had to change the GPA requirements to 3.5. Is that difficult? Absolutely. Do I care? I do not. Because life is difficult, period. Struggle every day. So the idea that you're gonna come here where I want excellence, I need you to be excellent everywhere. Okay, and so I'm watching people, I'm watching people like Ray Cole, I'm watching people like um Tracy Young, Byron, I'm watching people, you know what I'm saying, are all around me. I'm watching you, I'm watching, I'm pulling from everybody. Like, so how did you how did you get this great? How is your team that great? Cool. And I I just started creating and so okay, GPA check. All right, we're gonna moving on. Next, the skill had to change. Okay, I'm used to this, I'm used to this, and y'all are not giving me this. So, what do I need to do? And I would suggest, hey, everybody needs to go get in a dance class. And I did that for about two years of hey, go get in a dance class, hey, go get in a dance class, and nobody did it. And for whatever reason, I you know, maybe these uh young ladies just didn't care about dance that much. You know, maybe they just wanted to come over here, have a little fun, and go about their business. They weren't trying to be Misty Copeland. Okay, but that's not what I want. And this is my program, so we gotta change that. So the following year, I started bringing people in. Cool. Y'all don't want to go, I'm gonna make y'all dance. I'm gonna make you learn something else. So I would bring in coaches. Or I'm sorry, instructors that would do ballet classes during the summer. I think that's what we started. We started with ballet. Started with ballet classes, you know, doing bar for a full summer. And then the next year I added maybe two more summer classes where we'll do contemporary and African or a jazz class. And then, and I was trying at that time, I was trying to make it work with also our dance line training. So I was trying to split the time. Like, oh, so for the summer, you know, they'll come in for ballet just on like Monday and Wednesday, and then we'll spend the rest of the time um doing dance line. Uh, we'll be learning the stand routines. We'll be, and then after a while, I was like, no, that's not enough. I need more time. Or y'all need more time. Y'all need more time with, you know, these classes. So as a matter of fact, forget dance line training in the summer. We won't be doing that at all. Like, I cut it out completely. Forget it. The whole summer is gonna be based around, or our training during the summer is gonna be based around every other genre but dance line. And I don't care if you don't like it. That's not the goal here. The goal here is for you to add these things to your tool belt, right? To again network with these instructors and these teachers that I'm bringing in to see the possibilities, right? Like there are people who come from Clayton County who are now dancing on stages with people like Usher and Chris Brown and Cardi B and Missy Elliott, and they came from this neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? And they have something to share with you. Whether you think you want to be in their position or not, I want you to see that it's possible. And so I just started to shift the mindset, the expectations to create and build the standards that I wanted, you know, so this program to stand on. And now, you know, things I don't think about are GPAs. I I have a group of dancers who are they care about their GPA more than I care. You know, I'm saying they they own their teachers, but more than I am. They making sure they showing up to class, you know what I'm saying, when we get back from trips late, or if we have a performance coach, I got a test I gotta take. Can I can I skip this performance? Absolutely. Go take your test. So that shifting of the mind of the GPA a couple of years ago shifted, you know, the people who the caliber of people that I was bringing into the program. Um, that shift in adding those genres of those styles of dance to their training in the summertime shifted the type of dancers who came to the program, who came to the auditions. Now I have young ladies who go to the performing art school who want to dance over here because they're like, oh, okay, they doing a little something, something now. I can I can make it.

Speaker 1 24:50

They serious, they serious, they try over there.

Speaker 24:53

Okay, yeah, they're doing something. And I'm not, I don't uh say that I'm the best at anything that I do, I just try my hardest, and that is my intention for them as well. Like anytime y'all step into a room, y'all gotta at least try. And the goal is to be the best that you can be, you know what I'm saying? When you walk in, so whatever I gotta do to make that happen, you know what I'm saying? When y'all, and I just want to I want it to go across the board, it transfers to the classroom as well, it transfers to the their home life as well, it transfers to their work life as well. Anytime what y'all, what y'all are getting from me, y'all should be doing in other places. So I don't know if I answered your question, but you did, you did.

Speaker 1 25:40

But what I do want to know though, um, for those coaches that may be watching, that are like, oh, I like what you're saying, so how did you do it? Um, so so you reached out to people in the community, you just found people on Instagram and brought them in, or like, what was your process for selecting these people that you bring in?

Speaker 26:00

I started with people that I knew, um, with teachers that I had that taught me. You know, I started with them. I started with uh Ray Cole. Ray Cole was the first person I think I probably reached out to um because I considered her like the blueprint for me. You know what I'm saying? Like so when I started coaching, I went to her and was like, hey, what are you doing? How do you do it? Can I come sit in on a practice? Again, doing my research. I went, I said, I watched practices that she held. Uh, she had a binder. I said, What's in the binder? Let me see the binder. Like, there's a binder. She had a binder, you know, that tracked her students and all the things she had for I so I followed her. I followed her lead. And so I would reach out to her and I would say, Hey, I need somebody to come in. And she had created a pipeline of her students that she had taught from the high school through Spelman. Now they're at Spelman, they've graduated and they're looking for experience. So she would pull them in and say, Hey, come over here to Jonesboro, teach this class, get you some gas money, get you some food money. You know, Ebony got a couple of dollars for you. But they were knowledgeable, they were young, they were hungry, and they were inexpensive. And so, if you, you know, especially those who are like, I don't have a budget, I don't have a budget for that. There are viable options. I wouldn't just go out and just pay anybody $25, you know, and because you're gonna get $25 worth, but or I also wouldn't just be asking people to do things for free.

Speaker 1 27:47

For me, free correct. It's like I need it done right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 27:54

Something I've had, like I said, I've had multiple students of hers, even at the high school level. I had one of her high school students choreograph for me um for the dance team before. If you're talented, if you're talented, I I want to work with you now, and again, I want my students to see that anything is possible, they are the same age as you. They are about to teach you some choreography, they're gonna give you some techniques, some tools, and you can use that throughout the rest of your career, and y'all are the same age. So imagine what you could do if you focused, if you took those classes, if you continue to show up for yourself, where you could go at this same exact age. And so, yeah, I started there. I would start with like student teachers. Um, again, she had a beautiful network of dancers. Shout out to Pinky, um, who came in and work with the girls. And then after that, I would just go like I would see somebody somewhere, and I'm like, ooh, I like that. I like what they're doing, I love their energy, and I would reach out. And sometimes I wouldn't get a response back, depending on the person. Maybe they was busy, child. Um, and I would go on to the next. But I my goal was to when I saw when I was looking for somebody to come in, I was looking for certain things. I was looking for experience, I was looking for um performance quality, things that I knew we were lacking in. I was looking for those things in those instructors. And I would say, okay. And I just, you know, being a dancer, I also knew what was beneficial, what would be helpful. I'm sitting here and I'm watching the industry. So I understand that things are starting sooner, happening faster, um, and they're becoming more and more uh prevalent. So, or the opportunities are becoming more prevalent. So I'm seeing that dancers are now starting to dance in heels, or the requirement, you know, I'm saying, to dance in heels is starting at the collegiate level. So you need to be training now because if you go, if you choose to go to a college that chooses to dance in heels, I want you to be a little bit more prepared. I don't want it to be your first time, you know. So I'ma I'ma incorporate that into my training. Um, I'm seeing that dancers are now being chosen at super young ages to be a part of commercials, music videos, all kinds of stuff. And so that commercial style of dance, it's important for you to for you to grasp. So let's get some more hip-hop classes, some more jazz funk, some whatever. Let's add that to the mix. So just being able to watch the industry to kind of have my you know, finger on the pulse, I think that helps as well. Not ignoring that the facts, and the facts are at some point this HBCU thing is going to end for them. It's going to end whether it ends in high school or college. Nothing after college is HBCU. Right. Professionally, professionally. I'm talking people are, you know, they're booking dancers, professional dancers, to do that style of dance, but those dancers are not just skilled in HBCU dance. They are skilled in multiple areas of dance. And so I that has to be the mentality is that this is not the end. This is just the beginning. This is a stepping stool. You know what I'm saying? Like you are going to get so much from this, however, this is not the end, which would bring me to a point that to be honest, you don't need no more than two years of an HBCU dance on high school level. If we're being completely honest, like two years, you should be out of there. Shoot me. Yeah. Okay. Well, well, two years and be out because you should be spending your time preparing for the bigger picture. Yeah. And what I mean by that is even if you don't want to be a professional dancer, dance for Cardi B. Beyonce, dance for Ailey or whatever, even if those are not your goals, you have a goal of dancing for a college program, and the requirements for those teams are increasing tenfold each and every year. There is back when I was dancing, majority of the teams that were performing did not perform technical skills. Majority. There are very few teams. Now everybody is trying to incorporate technique into their choreography, which is great. That's awesome. But if your focus is just HBCU style and you're not taking hip hop, jazz, ballet, contemporary, modern something, your chances of making those college teams are going to decrease. And so I say you only need two years. Two years is really all you need. Because you're just trying to get as a teacher, you only need to get the style. Okay. If you spent two years learning the HBCU dance line majorette style, and spent the other two years knee deep in a ballet, jazz combo, that's really it. For the next two years, you can make anything. Yeah. You could make anything beyond after and do anything beyond. Now you're prepared for everything. Anything beyond. But what for especially for my program, my program is very rigorous. It's not an easy program to be a part of, it's time consuming. So it is difficult, especially now, for my students to say, I'm gonna be a part of Jonesboro Marching Band, Majestic Dancing Dolls, and go to a studio class three times a week. It's impossible, unfortunately. It is impossible. So you have to do more work, you have to do more work, meaning I don't have my weekends because I'm gonna be in a class, or I don't have my Mondays off because I'm gonna be in a class, or I can't make it to anybody's studio because of our schedule. So I'm gonna download an online subscription course and work on my own at home. Like that extra work, you know what I'm saying, has to be done in this program. So I don't, I'm not out here just saying, hey, don't come back to my, you know, to the team. But I am saying think long and hard about what it is you really want. If you really want to dance for the rest of your life, HBCU, it you on two years, two years.

Speaker 1 35:05

Because people also don't understand, yeah. People don't understand that if you only do studio dance and you go to an HBCU audition, it will be harder because, like you said, you don't have the style. Now, will someone take you because you have great technique? Absolutely, because they feel they can teach you the style, but can it be the opposite? Is what we have to think about. Like it can't be the opposite. Yeah, if you don't have the technique, you only have the style, and so then what?

Speaker 35:35

Now your options are very slim, and so you know it's or nothing because of the work that you're doing in those studio settings, you're getting experience, you're still getting performance experience because they all typically do um a recital of some sort. If you're a part of the company, you're doing company pieces, so you're getting experience on stage, you're getting production experience. Because y'all typically, uh, when you're in that grade level, that high school grade level, they have you working on lighting sometimes. Y'all gonna learn about lighting, y'all gonna learn how to put this latest Marley down, y'all gonna learn, you know, all these behind-the-scenes things. So now you're getting a piece of that. Um, and then because you're taking studio classes regularly, you're probably gonna be taking more than just jazz and ballet. Probably having African, you're probably doing modern, so you're adding all you have all this stuff that you can pull from. So when you do go to those college auditions, you might not have the style, but again, the style can be taught. I will say now, just from my perspective, my point of view, I feel like because it's so popular right now to work with marching bands, we are losing that training time at the collegiate level because they're preparing for a Super Bowl performance. They're preparing for this major artist music video, right? So they don't have as much time as they used to have. Um, but typically that style, girl, we'll teach you that. But you're you're coming in with your turns on point, you're coming in being able to add value to this program. You're adding value to this program when you're coming in with those skills. And I prefer that over somebody who just has the style who just been watching us, you know, march and they got our march down, and that's it. So consider it. Consider, I'm not saying it has to be your, you know, I'm saying your um your plan, the layout, the way you uh uh approach HBCU dance line um or high school dance. It doesn't have to be that way, but consider it. Consider what it is you're saying you want. And if you are a dancer who is a high school dancer or going into high school and you're saying, I want to dance professionally, even after college, consider the amount of time you're spending with that team and what you're gaining from that team. If it's a team, I can say this confidently, if it's a team like Westlake, you know what I'm saying, who has a dance department, majority or a lot of their dancers who dance for the team are also part of that department, they're getting that training. And so they can be a part of that team and still, and they're still training during the day at school. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's different, but there are but there are more schools who don't have dance programs that that do. So just consider it, just a thought, you know what I'm saying? Because I my goal is to help y'all get prepared. So if you come to me, whether it's in high school or whether it's through on the 50, and you're like, this is what I want, I'm gonna be pushing you to be in a class versus a team.

Speaker 1 39:06

Be on that team. Well, also, too. I mean, even that's even uh a note for coaches. It's kind of like stop holding these kids hostage, you know. Um, when you see when you see the talent and you see the the progression, you see the hunger, then it's time to start having a different different type of conversation. And I don't think a lot of them, nothing, a lot of them are just not ready for that conversation. And they are afraid to lose them because they have not trained the rest to be equal, right?

Speaker 39:43

Or better. But see, if you're afraid, if you're afraid to lose somebody, that's on you. That means you're not doing the job you're supposed to be doing. That you're not doing the work that you're supposed to be doing. Again, we're talking about the full picture. So as you are recruiting, okay, even at a high school level, when you are recruiting, you have to be thinking about the future and not the present at all times. With my the seniors that I'm missing or that I'm losing now, I started forgetting about them two years ago. I gotta get you out my mind because you're about to be gone in two years.

Speaker 2 40:16

Yeah.

Speaker 40:17

And I have to replace you. And the person that has to replace you has to be of the same caliber or close, y'all not gonna be the same. That's that's you know, that ain't gonna happen, but I gotta get something close to what you know what I'm saying. I'm about to lose. Yeah, and so if you're scared to let somebody go, you first of all you think about the wrong again, you think about the wrong thing. That's to me, you think about the wrong thing. Your goal is more so about the aesthetics, you know, what it looks like to everybody else versus really putting in that work. That's why I ain't worried because whoever comes over here is gonna be doing some work.

Speaker 2 40:56

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 40:58

You're gonna be working, and when you're done, it's gonna be some results. And I'm gonna get what I want. I'm going to get what I want because I've done the work. I've made sure that you've done your work, and so my product is gonna always be good. I ain't worried about nobody leaving.

Speaker 1 41:17

Or when they leave, you'll still see the same product because I've been recruiting. And well, you know what? Speaking of recruiting on the high school level, what what does that look like? How do you recruit on the high school level? Because I I get this question a lot. When I'm talking to a lot of high school coaches, they're very concerned about the the girl, the retention of the team and how to get new girls on the team, like how to get them interested. So they have a very hard time um starting or maintaining, so but you know, you don't have any problem with them kids walking in the door. So what's your take on that?

Speaker 41:54

Um I okay, so my take is you have to be engaged with the community, you have to provide those opportunities for people to see you. So if we're talking about at the high school level, that means I need to go see middle school kids, elementary kids. Because just a note, you're not recruiting for yourself, you're recruiting for the program, and you're recruiting for you possibly not even being present. You might not even be there by the time you see the results of the work that you're doing. You know what I'm saying? So just that's number one. Keep that in mind. But elementary and middle school, because you have to be present and show up there, and I have to again give credit to the band director because he makes sure that we show up. I don't want to go to every single performance that we do, but I understand the importance of it. And he sees an even larger vision than I do. You know what I'm saying? Before I do. So when he's like, Yeah, we're going over Centus Elementary School, I'd be like, How did this happen? How do we get involved? This ain't even our district. We're not even over here, but I have to be honest, I've had dancers transfer to Jonesboro. We've had just period students leave their home counties. The Cab, Fulton, Winnett, they would move to come over to this program. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was crazy. But they see the product, they see the results, they see the opportunities, they see the opportunity for growth, for experience. Their parents see it too. Otherwise, they ain't going nowhere. So The recruitment, it has to, and if you're if you're a part of a band program that is not doing that, suggest it. Hey, we should go over to the elementary school. We should go over to the middle school. Because in two, three, four years, I'm gonna see those students. And I want them to remember me, like I said earlier. Yeah, you want to have that relationship. You want them to be like, well, I want to be like her. I want to be like that dancer in the front. That's who I want to be like. And so four years from now, your program is thriving, whether you're there or not. Um, so that I think is a major part of the recruitment being visible. I'm not super big and large on social media, but I do make sure we have a presence. I could be better for sure. I could be. Absolutely. Um, but that's so time consuming. Very so you know, more power to those who do that. Um, well, but I think that also plays a role. So if you are not doing the uh on-site visits to those schools and y'all are not being visible, then your social media presence should be heavy. It should be very heavy because again, they you want them to see the product and even the work that goes into building that product. So that behind the scenes, um, those those shots, those videos, those little clips, those are important too. Because this ain't just no ha ha key key, put on a cute outfit and make and some makeup. Nah, baby. We in the trenches over here. We run in these heels, we run a mile every day. So yeah, that recruitment, um, just again, being visible, whether that means on in person or online, um, and then making yourself available, um, which can be difficult. If you're like me, you don't really like people all in your business, you don't like people reaching out to you. How do you get my number? Um, but but when they be like, hey, my daughter, you know what I'm saying, or my child is interested in coming to Jonesboro, um, or my child is interested in coming to whatever school, take that seriously. Take it seriously because they saw something, they saw something that makes them want to reach out to you and connect and say, my child wants to be with you. So be available, you know. So it ain't gotta be all day. Set your little hour, my your office hours. You know, my office hours are from nine to five. Set your office hours and yeah, like be available, be available. You see kids in the hallway when you walk in somewhere or you at a game and they speak, speak back.

Speaker 1 46:47

Speak back. That is that is very important. Them kids will say in the minute, I ain't coming, y'all coach me. And could very well be great talent walking around your school building, but they say you mean, and I mean, only because you didn't speak in their eyes, that's kind of rude.

Speaker 47:06

So I don't want to so while I while I am mean and I I have high standards, I speak to everybody.

Speaker 1 47:12

You are not mean. You just uh you're an introvert, and people don't you know how they have this new term now where like the the introvert, what is it? It's I can't think of what it's called, but they got a new term. I I think I'm in that category too, where you can be out, but you can also be in, and you're kind of a combo. Lastly, I want to ask you a lot of um it's become very popular for band directors to want a dual team, so they want the teams that are doing the dancing and the flags, okay. And oftentimes they'll say, hey, when they reach out or you know, whatever they post, they'll say they're looking for someone from NCAD because that's all we know, right? In terms of HBCU, that's really the only team that's doing it. Well, I won't say the only team that's doing it, but that's the only team that's doing it well. So, because I mean there may have been somebody come along here now lately. I don't know anything about, but they're the ones that's doing it well, um, and for a very long time. Yes, and so um I know uh the people don't know, people don't know uh that the dolls are actually doing both, they they do flag and they dance. How do you maintain that and make sure they're proficient in both in preparation for the scene?

Speaker 48:43

Yes, I enlist help of somebody else that is not my lane now. While Southwest of Cab, which is my alma mater, while we had to do both, um, and I can't even remember, I don't even remember like if there was somebody that taught us. I'm so sorry if there was. Um, I just remember we had to do it. And I remember going to Home Depot and buying a PVC pipe and practicing at home, and that was our flagpole because we didn't weren't buying no actual flagpoles. Um, so we were using PVC pipes and wrapping that flag around that PVC pipe. But I it I enlist help because while I had the experience, that's not my expertise. So that's number one. And I again I'm going to enlist the best that I can afford. Okay, because there is some that are the best, like there are some that are the best, but they're not in the price range. So when I initially started, I was looking at I would who is the best to me, you know, forgive my language, but it was like the predominantly white schools because that's what they do. They were color guard heavy, they whipping them flags up, them rifles, they going crazy. So I was like, hmm, let me get one of them to come over here and teach us. Um, but the issue with that was they weren't available because they had their own training to do with their own teams, and if they were available, they were a little costly. So I was like, hmm. So I said, do we have somebody? And I did my reverse, and sure enough, who do I find? Coach Kim, Coach Kendrick. Okay, he to me is the best. Now, to who you like, that's on you. But to me, I like him. Love him. He's gonna give you the information, he's gonna train, he don't take no mess, he's gonna tell you you don't look right, he's gonna tell you to fix your face, your hand, your leg, your toe. Yep, that's who I want, and that's who I got.

Speaker 1 50:53

But how often do they practice, you know, like splitting the time? I remember when I was doing uh dual program and we had a separate coach, and it was difficult for us to figure out the splitting the time part. So, how do y'all how does he come? How often does he come and how often do y'all practice it?

Speaker 51:12

What I love is that it's just me. There is no other coach, so I don't have to split my time with anybody, right? I set the schedule. Now, let's just talk about me. So, for anybody who is a single coach and who was looking to have a dual team, hire out, okay? Hire out, find somebody who can work within your budget and the timeline that you need. So when you're setting up your summer schedule, because I don't bring anybody in during the actual season consistently, they might come back for a review, you know, something like that, but their training typically happens in the summertime. So I will set up the schedule for the summer camp, and then I will place everybody in. And so summer camp is typically like three to four weeks, depending on how long band camp is. So we got two weeks of dolls camp regardless, and then band is either one to two weeks as well. So over those weeks, over those uh four, eight, twelve, sixteen days, I'll say, Coach Ken, can you come on one, two, whatever, you know, whatever days I have open during these times? And so they'll get about, let's just say, eight to twelve hours.

Speaker 1 52:37

Total.

Speaker 52:38

Eight total. And you have to learn, because especially if you're new, you have to learn the foundation, you know, the foundations of uh ColorGuard. Um, if you're a veteran, you're learning probably another um, what's the word? I was about to say tool. Um, so you'll use another uh piece of equipment. So we do flag, but we also have um swords, they're not called the sabers, the sabers. Um, and we have swing flags as well. So they're like the smaller but like large material flags. Um so if you are a veteran, you'll move on to another piece of equipment. And he'll come in and he'll set a piece. He has the music, so we'll say, hey, this is the song for the year, or at least for this first you know, half of the season. This is the song. And to be very honest, I'm only getting one routine. And if we get two different ballots, it'll be the same routine for the second ballot. We'll just make it work for that song. We're not doing so.

Speaker 1 53:40

Basically, he's saying he's saying choreography, he's not he's not there long term, he's just coming to choreograph, he's teaching skills and setting choreographing the actual flag routine, and he's out of there. That's it.

Speaker 53:53

You just take that and have them to rehearse that as part of the show, and that's how and then if there are things that I'm like, of course, I again I have the experience, I have limited knowledge, so I can I know what's right and what's wrong. Your hand is wrong. You catching that flag wrong, um, whatever, whatever. I see something that's really not being fixed, and I I can't fix it. I will call and be like, hey, can you come back? Because they're not grasping this skill that you gave them, you know, or this isn't really working out. Um, or we didn't get enough uh choreography. The song is longer than expected, so we need some more material. And because sometimes I be trying to add choreography, and I'm like, that's not for me. Um I called him back. Can't you come back? Okay. Um again, because even if I do try, I think I can do it. And I will, I will add something. He'd be like, Yeah, I saw he'll call me. Yeah, I saw you added something. Yeah, mm-mm. I'd be like, Oh, I thought that was cute. He mm-mm. Don't do that. Okay, because that's his expertise. He's good at the formations, he he sees the pictures that I'm not seeing. So I'm just gonna let me let me get out of the way. Let me get out of the way. Go ahead, coach. Oh, yeah, hire out, hire out, find somebody in your budget, even if it's not, even if it's just an introduction, because what band directors do, and I understand they don't, they don't have an understanding of the time it takes to learn. I think when band when bands get new music, they can learn it within a week. A couple of days, one day. For dancers, it's not that way, especially not for the majority. You know, so there might be one or two people who can learn in a day. There might be three or five that can learn within a week, and then you might have the rest who need a week and a half, and so they need to be y'all need to be on the same page and be realistic. If they come to you and say, I want to have a dual program as y'all are starting the season, your response should be, cool, we can work towards that. Um, we're gonna bring somebody in. We might not be able to get on the field this year, okay, with that, right? But we can start, we can bring him in, get them familiar because we got to buy equipment. Yeah. That's some money. Do we got the money for that? Okay, we got to learn how to use the equipment. So that's some time. And then by the time we get done with that, the season is gonna be over with. So we'll get started this season. Next season, we'll probably put some on the field.

Speaker 1 56:37

Yeah.

Speaker 56:37

But everybody needs to be on the same page and be realistic about the expectations and what can and cannot be done.

Speaker 1 56:44

Being that you are um going into your and already have started planning for your fourth year for the 50 uh for the HBCU dance live combine. What piece of advice would you have for parents and for dancers that are preparing to come for next year?

Speaker 57:01

Parents should have a team, a network as well, um, of qualified advisors for their dancer. Meaning, you have a dancer who goes to a studio or who dances on a team, um, you should be connected to that coach in some way, comfortable enough to at least send an email and say, hey, this is what such and such wants to do. What can we do? How can you help us achieve these goals while she is here with you? Um, you need to be able to have people, more than one person, preferably. You should have multiple that you can pull from, um, ask questions, get advice, because what I'm seeing is that you all are going into this as like a momager, right? With no experience. You have never been on a team, you never danced anywhere, you've only been with your child. And while that does bring a level of expertise, it's not enough. Because what I see is that you all have these dreams for your dancer, or your dancer has these dreams and you want them to happen, regardless, right? So you're saying, let's just say, for example, you're like, my daughter wants to go to NCAP. Cool. My daughter has never danced before. That's a problem. That is a problem. What she wants and what she has, they are not in alignment. Okay, they're doing this, all right? And so your mind is like, but that's what she wants, that's what we're gonna do. And you're setting them up for failure, okay? Your team, your network, the people you are talking to about your child's future and what they can achieve, what is possible, what we can do to get there, because they have the knowledge and the skill to give you that advice and those and those tips and tools. They're the ones that are gonna keep you in check. Like, hey, so what do we think about for college? She's coming to be a junior, right? Okay, yeah, so we should start thinking about college. So, what are we thinking? Is she gonna dance in college? Okay, where does she want to go? And Kat. Okay, we got two years. We got two years, we can make that possible. This is what it looks like, though. This is what it looks like. And you got as a parent have to be able to say, I trust you. I believe you have my child's best interests. You can't go out there and be like, Well, we're not gonna do what you said. I heard you, but we're gonna keep we're gonna keep doing what we've been doing. Okay. And then when it's time for her to go to the auditions and her senior year, and she doesn't make it, and that's the only plan that she had. I don't want to hear it. Don't come back. You know what I'm saying? But as a parent, I think you need to build your network for yourself. People that you trust, that you see their work ethic, you see, you know what I'm saying, their connections, their network, excuse me. You see they care about your child and they have their best interests at heart. And they can, if they don't have the answer, can provide you with the resource or the answer, keep them, hold on to them, reach out. Hey, so how do we get her ready for Southern? How do we get her ready for Motion? How do we get her ready for Benedict? How do we get her ready for Tuskegee? They can give you the tools and you should take it, take it, take the advice, don't run on your own because you won't know, you don't know nothing. Even if you did dance at 1975, you don't know anything about 2026, definitely not the same.

Speaker 1 1:00:51

Oh boy, now I don't even know anything about 2026. It's not the same, caliber of dancing, not the same caliber of coaches, the programs are nowhere near the same. Culture has shifted, and what you knew is not what's happening right now. You are so right. Like, just because you dance, don't mean you're gonna need to find somebody.

Speaker 1:01:16

You're absolutely right, and don't put that on your child, don't put those expectations on your children. What if you did a uh interview with a couple of my a couple of my girls, and it's and you asked them about that. You asked them, like, you know, how can parents be of benefit to you as students? And they and y'all, they were like, be supportive, be supportive, you know what I'm saying? But if I come to you with something, if I come to you and say, Mom, this is what I need, this is what's required, for sure. Do the research. Don't go out there blind, do the research. Let me let me talk to the teacher, let me, you know, Google that. Um, but don't try to run on your own knowledge when this is not your line. Unless you are embedded in this industry, in this culture, I would give it up to somebody else. Let somebody else guide you. But be supportive, be supportive and cut the check for the other person.

Speaker 1 1:02:16

Cut the check.

Speaker 1:02:19

Cut the check. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 1:02:21

Oh my god, you ain't lying. Because it's gonna cost some money for sure. So be ready to go ahead and make that payment because it ain't gonna be free, is not what you want. I I have to keep saying that because people want to ask for favors, and this is this ain't that. This ain't that, like, this is not the time you are playing with your child's future if you're trying to get something for free.

Speaker 1:02:45

Um and another piece of advice is now don't wait to the last minute. Your child is gonna wait till the last minute. So if you're depending on your child because they're the ones who are dancing and they're the ones who kind of are, it is their responsibility, however, they are children. They are children and they are not responsible. Okay, they're just not. So as a parent, start to plan ahead. Um, when it comes to them going to college visits and auditions, or not even auditions, but it's like college visits visits and workshops and stuff. Plan for that. Plan for that as part of their training, right? If we're looking at the layout, the big picture, let's talk about a sophomore who's getting ready to go into her junior year or his or her junior year. And what should be happening? And what should be happening is you all are looking at colleges, we're talking about college or next steps and what that looks like. Um, we're talking about schools we're possibly interested in it. So we want to go kind of see them at some point. We might not do a college visit, but maybe we'll go to a game that's in the area when they come into town. So we'll go to a game and we want to be able to try to get to the coach and talk to the coach. Hey, she's a junior, you know, a rising junior, rising senior. Um, she loves to dance. She might want to go here. We don't know just yet. Um, get some information. Get some information. Cool. Start going to the workshops. They are costly, right? Because if I live in Georgia, but the the workshops in Texas or Mississippi, I gotta pay for travel, lodging, food, right? That's costly. I also should be in class. That's costly. Okay. So all these costs are happening. Where I start to get disconnected from y'all's plan is y'all want to drop the training to go to the workshops, and y'all want to go to 10 of the same workshop. Well, such and such having a workshop, and then from the same school, she's having a workshop two weeks later. And then from the same school, she's having a workshop, but it's actually in the other state. So that's another $2,000. And then, but when I tell you to go to jazz, well, we don't have we done spent $10,000 going to these workshops. Now, what I just got done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So plan, plan appropriate, plan appropriately, and training should never fall to the wayside. And I mean training in a studio setting, jazz, hip-hop, uh, contemporary, ballet, modern. Don't don't take no if y'all pay for a major ed class and I see you, I'm gonna have we're gonna have some words. Those classes should never fall off in order for them to go to a school specific workshop.

Speaker 1 1:05:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:54

They need to they need to be visible, yes. They need to start building relationships, yes, but they're Is a way to do that economically. Yes. Social media connections. Hit them DMs up, emails. Hey, my name is such and such. I attend such and such. I'm in this grade. I'm interested in your program. Here's a video of me dancing. I learned y'all's field show from last week. That cost you zero dollars. And you connected and they see you. And now you don't have to spend $500 on a flight, a hotel, another $500, and then however much it costs to go to the workshop. It's not that you shouldn't go, you just need to go to all of them. You don't need to go to all of them. Okay, so plan accordingly. All right. And training should never fall off. Okay, I think I'm done.

Speaker 1 1:06:46

And you know what? In the very last episode, I just got done saying before you go to the workshop, you need a trainer regimen. Don't go to the workshop without the trainer regimen. The reason for the workshop is for you to showcase what you already know. And if you don't know anything or you only know style, that's not the time. You go you are going there, perhaps for networking. You are going there to, you know, just to kind of test your knowledge. It's just it's a test. This is you do the trialing in the classes, you do the testing at the workshops. This is not for both, though. This is not workshops, they say it's for beginners. It I mean it is, you can't go in there just so you, you know, to for reality check. But if you're serious about this, you want to go in there already prepared. You don't want to walk in there looking crazy. So, yes, yes, and and it's funny that you're saying that because you see it, and that's the thing that people don't realize. Like, we we done seen it, we've seen all these girls make all these mistakes, and we say these things, and they don't take us seriously, and we also telling the parents and they do their own thing, and then later on, it's like you was right. I know I try to help you. So, yes, here dancers, coaches. Please listen, and you have you have resources now. She just gave you some. You need to build your network of people, right? Of advisors. I love the way you said that of a network of advisors. Okay, you have a network right here. You can reach out to on the 50, coach Abity Harris, you can reach out to Corey. You can there is there are resources, and you just gotta start somewhere. We're we're connected, we're all connected because I ain't gonna do nothing but chit-chat pass you over there, okay, and then be like, okay, and then next you need to go to this, okay? And then, oh, yeah, you need to go to so and so, but you gotta get in there first, so you need to talk. You definitely need to get in the network. So, please, guys, go ahead and um start your advisory board. You can go ahead and start on the all right. This has been another great episode talking with Coach Ebony Harris of On the 50, founder of the HBCU Dance Line Combine. She's given us so many great tools, resources, tips about how we what things that we need to do in this industry to maintain this industry, to be to maintain our parts in this industry to go to the next level, what we could do now to go beyond HBCU dance. I mean, she's talking about everything what we could do with our programs to enhance them, to recruit for them, um, all the things. Okay, so all you have to do, if you've gotten this far, run it back, take some notes so you can make sure you're able to then reach out and build your network as she suggested. Um, I just want to thank you guys again and make sure you go and follow Major Business Pod on Instagram and TikTok. We're now on TikTok. Um, but also make sure you're subscribed to the channel, which is CoreyO Dance. So that's CoreyOthe Letter U and Dance. And you can also follow me on Corey U Dance at Instagram and TikTok. All right. Well, thank you guys for watching and until next time.