Who's Responsible for HBCU Audition Preparation? | Coach Mel Explains | Ep 15

**Who's Responsible for HBCU Dance Audition Preparation?**

If your goal is to dance at an HBCU, one question deserves an honest answer:

**Who's responsible for making sure you're ready?**

In Episode 15 of Major Business Podcast, Coach Melaneice Gibbs shares why 'training isn't optional' for dancers pursuing collegiate opportunities. Drawing from her experiences as a baton twirler, collegiate coach, judge, educator, and founder of 5th Quarter Auxiliary Training Center, she explains why preparation goes far beyond team rehearsals. Success requires intentional training, technical development, strong character, and a commitment to continuous growth.

**In this episode, we discuss:**

* Who's responsible for HBCU dance audition preparation
* Why proper training, including technical development and character building, is essential to earning a spot on a collegiate team
* Coach Mel's journey from baton twirling to collegiate coaching
* The story behind the abrupt ending of her Tennessee State University Sophisticated Ladies era and the lessons that followed
* How she met Dianna Williams and became involved with the Sophisticated Ladies
* Why team branding matters in today's dance world
* Her future projects and continued impact on the HBCU dance community

Whether you're a dancer, parent, coach, or HBCU dance enthusiast, this conversation will challenge the way you think about preparation and provide practical insight into what it truly takes to succeed at the next level.

🎙️ **Major Business Podcast** covers all things HBCU dance—from high school to college and beyond.

**It's not gossip, it's Education.**

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Whose job is it to make sure that my child is prepared for college auditions? People think that coaching is just about the dance aspect, and there's 50 billion other things that are going on that are almost way more important than the dance. It's not enough to just be able to dance anymore because everybody can't go to the same five schools. And in order for me to be successful with TSU, I had to have people with me. It wasn't a one-man show.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

This is a job, although it is a patch. Welcome to the Major Business Podcast, where we talk all things HBCU dance from strategy structure, leadership, performance, and training. And today I'm your host, and as always, Bershawn Lee. And we have a very, very special guest for you all today. So don't want to waste any more of your time. Let's get right to it. So she's a choreographer, creative director, filmmaker, and this is going to give it away, the founder of Fifth Quarter Auxiliary Training Center. With more than 16 years of experience in dance and entertainment, she is recognized for her work developing collegiate dancers, advocating for HBCU dance programs, and producing impactful projects that elevate the culture of dance. So without further ado, let's go ahead and welcome y'all into the room, Miss Coach Melanie's. Hello. Hey, hey, hey. All right, well, let's go ahead and get first. Um, I really want to know more, and we all need to know more about Coach Melanie. So can you just tell us like where you're from, how you got started, all that good stuff?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, so I'm Coach Melanie Skipps. I live in and kind of from Nashville, Tennessee, uh, by way of Charleston, South Carolina. And I have been teaching dance and coaching dance for a little over 16 years now. It's crazy to think though, because I'm like, that's a really long time. Um, but I started really young. So um a lot of people first, I feel like knew me as a twirler, that girl that twirls fire. Um, I twirled at Jackson State University as part of the Sonic Boom of the South. Um, and ever since then, it's kind of been all dance, everything since then. Um, I've coached every level of dance that you can think of from middle school, high school, and of course college, and then now I'm training dancers for collegiate and pro dance teams.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Okay, so tell me more about the fire though. How did you start doing that? Because I mean, I know of girls, and they really did used to be back, like really, really be big. I mean, back in the day, but like um, as far as like the majorette of twirling and everything, but like, how did you get into twirling fire? Is that like the next level? Like, once you can twirl, like, say, three batons or so, then you can is that like the next level to it?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

You don't even have to twirl three. I think it's just the desire to be able to do it. I started twirling when I was seven, uh, competitively, and probably around I don't know, maybe like 12 or 13. Uh my coach introduced me to fire batime, and so I started that halftime um at football games and in parades. Like, and everybody loves everybody loves when you twirl fire, and it's the most minimalistic twirling I feel like you can do. Um, but everybody is so amazed and they they love it. Even when I was at Jackson State, like that was the one thing that they really loved for us to do on the field is to twirl fire because a lot of schools, even though I feel like back then a lot of schools had twirlers, but a lot of them weren't on fire, and so that I feel like that was the one thing that set us apart.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Uh yeah, of course. See, you were twirling it, so you didn't know. We were watching in amazement, uh, because we we would never. Um, I mean, it just looks very risky, so yeah, but that's fun. That's fun to watch and fun to know. Okay, so uh what about your dance background? Um, did you were you dancing and twirling at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, so a lot of my dance in the beginning was through baton twirling. I didn't really start taking like technical dance classes until I started attending a performing arts middle school and high school. Middle school was still kind of like very new, but because baton twirling required you to dance, I kind of had those basic foundations already, but I really didn't start taking dance serious until um high school at Nashville School of the Arts.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Wow, okay. All right, well, so let's go ahead and get into um some of your most recent work. Well, well, we can really go back to when you first got started professionally. So post-college, and you I know you started your classes. Was your classes the very first thing that you started when you first jumped into the HBCU world? When you were doing your fitness classes, because I remember back then.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah, I feel like it was. I think that was kind of the introduction to like the HBCU world. It was something really that kind of happened. Um, I think even at that time, the goal was not, oh, I want to coach, you know, college dance. It was really just something fun that literally just happened in the studio and progressed from there.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

But no, this is before you started doing college dance because Tennessee State was your first program, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, they were first programmed.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Okay, yes. I'm talking about when you were doing remember you would do like the um it's the same class now, I think, but y'all were doing the counts.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, so that and that's what I'm saying. Like that that class happened by accident. So when I got into that at the time, I had a well but right before that, I had a dance company, and I let that go. I had been coaching high school. I did a little bit of college dance at a PWI coaching wise um for probably about a year, but the class really just happened at a point where I was like, I don't want to coach anymore, I don't want to teach anymore, and was playing around in the studio one day and posted it to social media and it just kind of took off from there. And everybody's like, Well, when's the next class? And I'm like, y'all, we were playing in the studio. This is not a class. Um, but I was like, okay, you know what? I'm done teaching kids. Like, I mean, let's we'll try adults. Let's see how this goes.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yeah, because that's where I mean, you because you gotta remember now, this was before there's so many options now, but back then it was just a few of us that, you know, were out there just trying to offer more and give more opportunity, just even beyond high school, let alone beyond, you know, college. So that was just the next fun thing to do. And I felt like it also incorporated more, it kind of, I feel like it was a little bit of bridge of a gap between, say, the J setting and, you know, like the HBCU world. I feel like that's really where it started, like some of that bridging the gap, because you they were able to come and like join us, maybe, you know, like, you know, um veteran or whatever you call alumni, uh, HBCU dancers, but then also they could, you know, that could be that was their experience of coming to merge with us to like then learn the routines or whatever. So I feel like that was the first merger to me. Um, because that's when I started to see more people like showing up and getting to experience what we've experienced already on the field.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So yeah, it definitely created community and bridged that gap of like people who did, like you said, and then people who had aspirations to dance, but either didn't make the team or they just you know they couldn't for whatever reason. But I also like just from a marketing and PR perspective, started thinking back like I was in the best shape of my life when I was a part of an HBCU dance program. Like could run for days and still breathe. Um, and so that kind of thinking about that and then just how people took to it, it was like, okay, like this actually can be something.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

So that's that's why I say I've been watching since then. So I'm like, wait, wait, wait, take it back. This system just worked. Um, so let's get into the collegiate. Um, you know, I know you've coached college, but so before we get to the coaching aspect of it, um, how what do you think that the girls should be doing? Because I am getting some perspective um from different coaches, and they vary some. So since you've been around and in the game for a while, like what do you consider to be the preparation or maybe the gaps in preparation um for these collegiate programs?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, so I think especially for high school dancers and parents, is really understanding the collegiate game. And it's advanced, even in the last, like I'll say five to seven years, like it's shifted so much because a lot of it is branding. It's not enough to just be able to dance anymore. Like, there's a role and a part that you have to play when you join these teams, and I think I feel like a lot of times coaches or parents and even dancers, they focus on the one big aesthetic that you see the most at the game, which is stands. You know, it's fifth quarter, it's you know, what are you doing in the stands? And all those things are important, but that's not what's gonna get you on a team. And so it's really understanding the aesthetic of a team, it's understanding branding, it's understanding how to be confident in yourself and on you know who you are, being able to speak well, being able to walk in a room confidently and speak to that coach. Um, not even just speaking, emailing, because sometimes the way people email, the messages on the team page. I'm like, who are you talking to? Like we let's bring it back a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Um, but you know, who's in who's in charge of teaching the the um emailing etiquette? Because like where where does that actual instruction live? Because that is a lost art, and I'm I am so serious, it's a lost art, and it's concerning because this is how we communicate now. And how are you gonna have a job?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

So yeah, that is that that's a very um important factor that you mentioned because it is it's funny because a parent, I taught a workshop and a parent asked me that same question, but their question was more of like, whose job is it to make sure that my child is prepared for college auditions? She was like, Is it my responsibility or is it the coach's responsibility? And I was like, Well, ultimately at the end of the day, it's really on the parent. Yes, coaches have a responsibility because they're in these programs, and you're hoping that your coach is gonna prepare your child for every aspect of college dance, but as a parent, it's your job to hold either hold that coach accountable or put your child in a program where they're gonna be able to excel. So even like all of that starts at home. I I'm sure they learn it in school too. But you know, as a parent, check the child sends it, read it, proofread it, help them learn how to communicate because that's the first step into adulthood, or one of the first steps into adulthood is being able to effectively communicate. So you can email.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, but even even more into um the gaps that you're seeing, um, even culturally, like what do you see to be the mishap here? Like what is happening? Can you tell us?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, well, one is like just not understanding training. I feel like culturally, we don't process what it means to invest in training and what training actually looks like. Yes, you know, because I I I have coached and then I'm also in the dance studio world and competitive dance world, it's it's so different, but really in reality, they're the same. But it's really the mindset of what it takes to train. Everything is not gonna be free. There are some things that are free, but even outside of investing money, you have to invest the time and understand like how to practice. It's no different than if you tell a child to go stretch, they're gonna do a little one-two, and then be like, Okay, I'm warm.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

And hit a split.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

You're yeah, and I'm gonna split form, you don't get your body up properly, so it's like it's shifting that mindset of what training is and then how to train. I think that's that's ultrally, I think that's the gap.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Okay, you're right about that though, especially when it comes to the investing, investing, period, like you said, the time and the money, because they assume that the resources will just come. And the other part of that is that sometimes I put the onus on the band programs that they come from because they're spoon feeding them information, they're you know, kind of holding their hand and and without releasing them into like, here are the resources, here are the things, follow this and go do this. Instead of saying that, or perhaps they don't know, either way, it's not happening. Um, or they're they're finding people to pay or get it, you know, they're excusing the kids that don't pay. So if you never have to pay, you know, there's a bill, but you never take care of the bill, then but when somebody says they want a payment, then it's like, oh, we don't. So I mean, yeah, if there is a value um aspect that they I don't I don't know, and then what is the price point? You know, it's like they always struggle with that when having classes too, because it's like, what is what is a price point that they would think it it could cost or should cause versus what it actually costs? It never really you gotta find somewhere in the middle, and so it's very difficult to make profit for real, um, with all the work that you have to put in to do it, because there you risk not having, you know, like the people there because they're not willing to make the investment or they just don't value what it is that you're offering, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

And definitely on the value part, because I think that's part of it too, is understanding the value in the training, um, time-wise and with the the person also. Um, because I feel like culturally it's hard for us to equate like a value for time. I feel like that's always kind of been a struggle. But even like from a coach's perspective, if I'm coaching a high school dance team or I have high school dancers that I know want to dance, whether I can help fulfill those dreams or not, it's still I feel like my responsibility to make sure there's something within this program that is going to help them. And whether I do that through the school's budget and make sure that my band director or my principal know, hey, the next chapter for these children is this. This is what it takes to get them there. You know, because I I'm one of those people, I'm never afraid to ask the question or fight for what I feel like is gonna be in the best interest of the program or the children. So as a coach, you're not thinking about how can I make these things happen because you know, you know your you know your dancers, you a lot of times you know their parents and what their financial situation is. So as a coach, like just do the work to try to make as much of it happen as possible to where it doesn't cost the dancers anything or a lot. Because I do feel like there are coaches and instructors out here who will discount things, who will be willing to help a program. I mean, I've done that for people before, but I need to know and understand, like, okay, what are your goals for your program? How are you trying to help your students? Because then if I if I see that, I'm more willing to be like, you know what, like, yeah, let's let's figure this out. Let's see how we can get them, you know. But I think a part of that too is making sure, like, especially band directors, sometimes they understand, sometimes they don't. Um, but I feel like you got you have to you gotta help usually not get there. Yeah, you gotta help them get there. But it's just like making that investment as a coach yourself to make sure that your program has what it needs.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree. Um, I do want to talk about, and I and I, you know what, to even add to that in terms of coaches, and so this is also part of, you know, um my mission with all of this too, is just making sure that coaches are more aware so they can be more educated about what the resources are, so they can be sharing the correct things and mindset-wise, understanding that you don't you don't own the children, you know. I mean, you you don't own them. So so you can't be if you're doing your job, they won't, they'll come back. Like they're they're not gonna leave you and never come back. Like, if you if I put you on to this person, and especially if it's your school, like they gotta come back to school. So they can still go take these classes and go to this workshop and go to these places, and they're gonna still come back to your school program, they're gonna still come back to your community program because you have the resources, but there is some mindset shifting that has to happen with the coaches because they're the first line. I mean, we could talk about band directors, they don't usually know, they just put the people in place and hope that they're doing the job. But there are a lot of coaches that are either misguiding or like uh or misinformation or no information at all. And so it's kind of like, well, let's get connected so that we know what's happening. If you know the people that are in the places that are doing the things, you know, like let's get to going. And when people develop new programs and new workshops and new things, they should also do their due due diligence too, you know, to find out who's out there. But so with all of that, I do want to get into um your collegiate experience. Um, so so what was that like? Um, and then I know you have some future um aspirations and things that you want to kind of do. So, can you share a little bit about your experience coaching collegiate?

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, and then before I get into that too, just to your point about the coaches, like I do think that coaches sometimes get territorial, think everybody wants to they did XYZ, but honestly, if you get the right people in place or send your kids wherever and they come back, your program only grows. Um it was or wasn't you, so just you know, push them out there. Um, but I just I had to say that because I even as a college coach, I've experienced that where you know I think even coaches have to do better with networking than making the connections with college coaches. Is it gonna guarantee you that the child gets on the team? No, absolutely not. But at least you have that access to ask questions, um, you know, to understand the program better, and not just the you know, not just the coaches of you know the the big bigger schools that everybody wants to go to. Like, you need to be networking and meeting everybody because everybody can't go to the same five schools, yeah. Um so and I will say like as a coach, it took as a college coach, it took me understanding like how do high school programs view the program that I am working in. Like, I know how I view it as one perspective, but how do you view it? Like, what has been that connection? Has there been a connection or a bridge? And so when I first got to Tennessee State, I kind of had the freedom to do what I wanted to do. The the band program from a dance perspective was in a shift, and so I came in and the directions were rebrand. We don't really, I'm not gonna say they didn't care what I did because they they did care, but it was very open, you know. Um, and so I knew going in, I didn't want to, I wanted to change some things, but I wanted to figure out like what what is the tradition? What are the things that have sustained the program? How do people view this program? Because I like I know how I feel, but that's that's one perspective. How does the community view the program? How does HBCU culture view the program? Um, and so with all of that and the knowledge I already had, and then just my marketing and PR brain, it was like, okay, like this, these are the things that I want to set out to do. These are the people that I want to kind of help make this happen. And I will say, going into It I feel like I went in at the perfect time because it was COVID and it was slow. And I literally walked in my first day, Band Camp had already started. So, like the season was already going by the time I got to the door. And so I technically I'm behind because the season, like we're moving, but COVID definitely kind of gave me that time to like slow down and really build what I wanted my first season to look like. I feel like COVID COVID was like my preseason. It was a rough year, it was a lot going on.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Now when you say COVID, though, I'm sorry, you see you do you mean like the 2020 season, or are you talking about the 2021 season?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Because you know both of those was kind of uh they were 2020 when we were like completely shut down. They moved the football season to spring. Oh and it really was like maybe four or five games that were on campus. Um, nobody was there, it was the football team, it was us. A lot of times we had practice, we never really had everybody in practice. I think the first time we really had everybody in practice was like two days before the first game because kids were getting sick, the university would shut us down, like it was a lot happening, and so I say that too to say like people think that coaching is just about the dance aspect, and there's 50 billion other things that are going on that are almost way more important than the dance.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

And I'm like, wait a minute, hold on. It's a lot, it's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

That that I think maybe it was ever talking to recently, but somebody, yeah, we definitely discussed that all the other things. Listen, by the time I get to the day, it was Mallory I was talking to this about talking with this about. Um, but yeah, yeah, by the time we get to the creative part, it's yeah, it's you know, what do y'all have? Okay, I have two ideas. What y'all got? Because I am shocked. They say that you supposed to have the uniforms today, they're not gonna come to next week. I'm stressed. What do y'all got?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, gotta pick, use your own money, um, pull stuff to pull a rabbit out of a hat. It's all kinds of things, like so many things happen and shift, like literally in the blink of an eye, when you're coaching and you live you have no control over it, even from like a uniform perspective, you know, the university purchasing process is a whole thing, and you want to order, you know, now, but you can't, and it's gonna take three weeks for the people to even get their money. So now that process is delayed, you're not gonna get your stuff in time all the time, and so there's there's so many pivots, and I feel like being in that world and being able to problem solve very quickly is very important. The dance piece is important, the kids are important, but you gotta be able to shift and not stress and show any like sweat because the moment you start stressing, the dancer starts stressing, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

So, what what other um what are some misconceptions you would say that people have? And I know you just shared one in terms of like having to do a million things that may not be as important as the actual what people consider the coaching or the dancing. Um, but what are some other misconceptions you think people um would imagine that, you know, especially on a collegiate level? Because I I've heard people, you know, they think you know, you guys are like on a pedestal and like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, these are real people, they have real issues, and they this is a job, although it is a passion.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

It is, it's a job, it's a passion that does not pay very much. I think that's one misconception. I think people think like the pay is great, it's not, it's not.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

I think that um if you get paid at all, there are some collegiate coaches that don't even get paid.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Some people don't there are some that there are some that get paid very, very little for the entire semester or year. Um the money piece is very interesting, and I'll even say, you know, to that I I feel like for what HBCU Dance is right now, I do think there needs to be some some sort of shift in how the coaches are considered from a financial perspective because it's a lot of time that you spend in rehearsals and out of rehearsals um preparing for all the things. But I think even like another misconception is that we can just do whatever we want, and we can't. Like we're we are tied and bound to certain processes and procedures um that don't really allow us to just completely do whatever we want. Like it's it's not that kind of free. I think we do have a great deal of freedom, but even when it comes to something like song selection, I always get to pick the song. I submit my list, hey, y'all to the songs. I give them a little playlist. These are the songs that I want to do for field this year. Um, we'll have our little back and forth discussion, and they're like, okay, yeah, we'll do these three or four songs. I might get two of them, you know, in the season because something, something shifts, something happened. Yeah, yeah, you know, in music. Somebody passed away. Now we gotta do a tribute. So you're not gonna get the song that you want. And you found out on Wednesday, and uh you've been practicing to a whole nother song, you know, all this time. So there's things, things like that where it's like you don't have the control as much as people think that you do.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Mm-hmm. Well, how do you feel about the social media part um piece to the culture aspect? Like it's it's so much on there. Um, maybe even speak to like what maybe your policy was with your girls, um, and if you know of any other policies, because I'm sure it has to be strict, otherwise, mentally the kids wouldn't be able to perform, you know. Like, I don't think people realize that they are people too.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Like these girls are whole humans, and they are not even just whole humans, they are whole, they're adults, they're children. Children at the end of the day, exactly. These are girls who a lot of them just came from high school, they're 17, 18 years old, first time away from their parents for real, trying to figure out who they are. And I as much as I love social media, and I think it it can be a very useful recruiting tool, I think it can be a very great, like, promotional way to like brand your organization and help people understand before they get there what the organization is about. But at the same time, because it's such a judgmental space, um, you do have to have thick skin. I know, like, for me, my rule was like for freshmen, like they could not, um, they couldn't be on social media. And then the conversation after that really is okay, hey, like obviously I'm not with you 24-7. If you choose to look on social media or get on social media unbeknownst to me, just make sure you're prepared to deal with whatever it is that you see, um, and understand one a lot of times people that have a whole lot to say are people who have never danced before. And then when you actually see them in person, you're like, you're the person. But I think that a lot of what I know for me, my experience for my girls, a lot of it was seeing people that they knew um who were in certain positions at the university saying negative things about them. So then when they see people, yeah, when they see those people, they don't want to, they've never been disrespectful, but it's like now I look at you different, I've lost respect for you. But at the same time, from a branding perspective, you know, you have to kind of mask that and still, you know, speak and all the things. So I think it's it's things like that that are life lessons, but at the same time, I don't feel like I should have to coach somebody on how to deal with that because this like the university should be a safe space. Everybody has their opinions, true enough, but it just sometimes it's just really not that deep, y'all. They're just dancing, like let the children dance, they're just dancing, but everybody, I mean, everybody has their opinions, I get it. Everybody wants, they think that the program should be whatever the case may be when they don't really understand all the different you know aspects and pieces, and that's cool, I get it, but they're they are human, we are human as coaches, like we y'all, like we be tired, tired of the dancers and tired of y'all.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Like, yes, well, okay, okay. So, okay, so we got we got social media policies that you the girls can't be on there, the freshmen, and you know, this and that. But I I I remember watching as throughout your tenure coaching, and I mean your page, the girls look great, like everything was like seamless, and that you can tell the branding was like on point. Now, obviously, you do this as a career, so you know, of course, your stuff gonna be on point. But what advice that do you have for others? And you understand the recruitment aspect of this, so which is why you said you mentioned social media could be a great tool for recruiting. There are some people that are not using it, nor are they putting any time or effort into branding anything. So, can you give some advice as to what folks should be doing? Because how do you expect anybody to be pulling up at your auditions and your page is, I mean, barely there's nothing even recent.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, it's gotta be recent, it's gotta be relevant, and it's gotta be intentional. I think people, because sometimes people say just post it, and yes, to a degree, just post it. If it's your own personal thing, but when you're thinking about your team and how you want people to come in, because my whole thought process, too, was if I go ahead and put most of what I expect out there, those are the type of people that I'm gonna get to audition. So that's a little bit of work that I have to do when they come in, but I really feel like people miss the mark by not fully thinking about what their organization represents fully, and so there is a lot of focus on dance, there's a lot of focus on costuming, but I think if marketing and PR is not your expertise, then you need to reach out to the university marketing department or a student that's in marketing, which that doesn't always work, but um find somebody to at least look at your page and give you an outline to say, hey, these are some of the things that I think you should do. Or if you can't do that, look at a page that resembles what it is you want your page to look like and just follow suit, like use that as a blueprint. It doesn't have to be super like hard, but it's got it has to make sense. And I feel like I I've seen where I'm like, why would you post that? Like, that's not even yeah, no, mm-mm. Take take that out, please.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

But I wonder if it's I wonder if it's the kids posting it, which I mean I'm I'm pretty sure is the kids posting it. Sometimes I mean they're unaware. Well, you're right sometimes, because it could be the full own coach, but um, and even this goes for like you know, you know, high school and community teams as well. But yeah, I I think um they're when they're creating the things, they're not realizing that people attract because I people always want to talk, they want to have conversations about retention, okay? So that's what it's still me to say. Well, what's your take? Because the very first step to me would be to create some front door, right? And and then you invite the people in, but you don't have nothing. You don't you just want people to just be showing up to do what? Because they don't even know what you do, they haven't seen it, you know. Um, and especially in the collegiate program for parents that are sending their kids to a program. Yeah, I know my child says she wants to go to X, Y, and Z, but I may not feel comfortable if I don't even see nothing. Like, I mean, there are some pages there is nothing.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Um, yeah, and that's the thing too. Like, parents have to feel like that program is safe and beneficial for their child, also, because a lot of times they're sending their child away. Yeah, and so if you have anything on your page, or if the only thing you have, I've seen some programs where all they have is pictures. Pictures are great, yeah. I want to know how you can't get to a game. I want to know how you did. Like, how do I know that your style fits you know my aesthetic as a dancer? Um which is that's the subject, but like, how do I know? So I do think like coaches and programs have to be very intentional about what they post and even just in the cap the captions, the music, because sometimes like I'm like, why we got cuss words, y'all? Like, what what are we doing? Please stop. You come on, stop.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Um, the lyrics is like, oh, oh, why did you choose that song?

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, we can't we gotta stop that. We gotta stop that because like from a brand perspective, too, you're also prohibiting yourself from being seen by other brands or other programs, or someone who may want to donate money to your program. And so if I'm going to your page um and I don't see anything worth giving my money for because you have all these cuss words, or what you're posting doesn't align with you know who I am or what my company represents. Well, now you just lost out on you know donor money or brand opportunity or whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

Well, I think too, they don't some a lot of them aren't as knowledgeable enough to know what the opportunities might be from it, and so they don't even realize that they're missing out on anything, you know. It's just kind of like when I get girls, they come, you know, from my hometown or from areas around, and people come to the audition, but like what if like and you know what I was about to say, what if you know you had double the amount of people, and it made me think how many girls used to have at your auditions based on the way because again, your the way that you had that page set up, I wanted to come audition myself, so I was trying to figure out what I was trying to figure out how many girls is pulling up to this audition.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

So the number that would audition online or submit like the first round of auditions because everybody didn't come in person. I learned that very quickly just from doing like NFL and NBA auditions. I don't need to see everybody in person. Um, so we would have anywhere from probably like 50 to 75 when I first started, and then I would probably say like towards the end, we would at least probably have a hundred girls that audition, but I really would only bring in if you include the people that were already on the team, probably about 20 to 30 in person. Wow. Sometimes this better because sometimes wow, but not wow, because you get a lot of foolishness in that, and so you know, it's like, oh yeah, that's a really nice number of people that audition, but then when you look at the people who are actually worth looking at, so I mean it's great to have numbers, but if those numbers are not quality, I don't even care. I'd rather have I rather have this solid number that's low with qualified dancers than to have a whole bunch of people audition. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm even seated on the NFL and NBA level, and I'm like, child, what why did you even audition? So it happens, but I think from a branding standpoint, though, for me, because recruiting-wise, I wasn't at a place or the program wasn't at a place where I could go out and recruit, and so I was working on the scholarships, and that scholarship piece was really important because I didn't want to go out and recruit in different cities, and I have nothing to offer you. So, like that was why the social media piece was so big because I need to like entice you, I need to make this look like it's just heaven on earth over here. Um, and I mean it was sorta kinda. Every program has like, you know, yeah, but I don't have anything to offer outside of like creating different opportunities for these girls, so it had like it had branding-wise, it had to be enticing, yeah. And we don't play HBCUs, and that's the other thing too, like TSG is not in an HBCU conference, and so that's is it still considered like independent? They are in the OBC, um I forgot what that's Ohio Valley Conference. Um, and so that's another thing. Like, you go to a HBCU and you make an HBCU dance sign, you wanna you wanna play against HBCUs, and so that's another thing, another reason why I had to make social media so enticing because you come here and most of the time at a home game, it's just us, there is no other band on the other side of the field. Oh so you know, it's hmm just wait wait.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

So what about the classic? Isn't like a Labor Day classic they play Jackson State, is it at first?

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yes. When I my first three years, we played Jackson State in the Southern Heritage Classic in Memphis, but that's the one game out of the whole season that we will play at HBCU. So we will play an HBCU at least twice out of the whole season, but that that was really it, and a lot of times it was at the beginning of the season, and then after that, it's all smaller like PWIs, even homecoming, up until probably recently, these last few years, it's not as exciting when you go to the game and you're the only band that's there, so it had like you have to brand it a certain way and create other opportunities to make these girls want to be a part of the team.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Wow. Well, okay, now as we're talking about this, I understand that you know, all good things come to an end. So when it was all said and done, what really happened?

SPEAKER_00 42:29

So a lot happened. I feel like a lot happened really, really fast. Um, I was never like an employee of TSU, I was contracted out. So I would sign a contract every month um as the coach for the team. And so my contract came to an end. And uh, in my mind, I'm like normal, like just send me the other contract so I can sign it, we keep on going. Um, and they did not send me another contract. I kept asking for the contract, nobody was sending it. And um I got word that they were like doing cuts, budget cuts, and removing different positions, not just from a band perspective, but like just the university as a whole. And so I was one of I know the first round, like one of a hundred and something people that got let go. And the band director was like, Well, wait a minute, like who's gonna coach the girls? Because I I can't coach the girls somebody. So um was having conversations with people, um, and there really was there was no basically, if I wasn't gonna do it for free, then they were gonna go in a different direction. And this probably happened a couple weeks before homecoming. And at this point, I'm like, What are we gonna do? How am I gonna tell these girls that I've built this strong relationship with that hey, I'm not your coach anymore. You know, I didn't feel like I had to be the one to tell them, but at the same time, you know, when you're around them so much, like you just you build that relationship, but also people are still trying to work to figure out how do we fix this because we like the girls have to have a coach, but also like we want Melanie's to stay here from a staff perspective. Um, so I worked the rest of the season for free while they figured out or tried to figure out like what they were gonna do, and then the conversation kind of shifted to well, you can stay, we got a little bit of money, but it's 75% less than what you were getting paid before, but we still want all the things that you were doing before for that same amount of money, and I was like, absolutely not, I can't do that. I'm not gonna say that to myself, yeah. No, because I feel like too, I was already doing way more than what the job required, even if you just look at the we talked about social media, like that was not part of the job description, the band has a media team, you know, the school has uh a marketing department, but I just like for me, branding-wise, whenever I would leave that way, it just never was what I needed it to be. So I took it on, and that you know, that was one of many things that I took on in the process of that position. But yeah, it just it came to an end very abruptly, and when I was talking to certain people, they were just kind of like, Yeah, so yo, we ain't got no money, so either you're gonna do it for free, or like that's it. And yeah, it that's pretty much how it happened, you know. But you finished out the season. I finished out the season, okay. Um, I finished out the season for free. Um, because one, I I there were things, you know, you plan for the season. So at the time we were shooting a we were shooting two shows actually. Um, one that was my own project, and then one that was a project that we were collaborating um on with uh Diana Williams and Brandon TB. So we were doing that, so we had two film projects that were like literally in process during that season. Um, along with just the things that I had set out to do for the season. So I'm like, dang, like when I say everything shifted so fast, it shifted so fast. And I will say the one lesson that I learned in the process because we do give so much to these programs, you know, as a coach, is that you do all of it and none of it really is for you at the end of the day, none of it belongs to you, you can't take it with you. No matter you can create the logo, you can create the costumes, design the costumes, create everything that this program has. But at the end of the day, when you walk away, you walk away with nothing but you and whatever legacy it is that you left, and you hope that whoever comes next will also continue to respect that legacy as well. So it's just there are so many things that it taught me, and even just from a creative standpoint, because like you don't you don't own any of it, it literally all to the program. So I was like, Yeah, next time I go into this, I gotta work my contract a different a different way.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Um live listen, we live and learn for sure.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

We do, we do so, but everything literally everything stopped in like September. I did homecoming, I did get paid for homecoming, and then after homecoming, I told the girls, and they were like, I remember one of them was like, We knew something was different because you let us out of practice after like two hours, and you don't never let us out of practice in two hours. And I was like, that was just cute that something was wrong.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Yeah, they were like, Is she okay? Yeah, they thought something was like help-wise wrong.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah, or I there were times I was like, Hey, I'm not coming to practice today, y'all work on this, or y'all just go to the field, go to the band room, and get done at this time. And I would just like check in and be like, Hey, are y'all done? You know, how did practice go? Um, because I had a great relationship with my captains, and the girls were like, they were sustainable to where I didn't necessarily have to always be there, but I would be. And so I think that was a shift too of me not always being physically there too. And now, like, okay, like what's what's happening? Because you're always here.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Wow, that's just I mean, I mean, yeah, I guess like you said, it's it's definitely a live and learn. Um, people think that when you get these glorious jobs, it can even be in corporate. People believe that when you get these glorious jobs, that you know, it's all fruits and berries, and you know, it's just, you know, and sometimes it is, and I'm sure there are many moments where it's fulfilling and you know, and all the things, but at the same time, there's so much to deal with, and there's more to do there than it is on a high school level. So if you can't efficiently run a high school or you know, community program, you for sure can't run a whole adult program because these are not children, and then you have other issues beyond what you already had, you know. Um so yeah, I think that's why I was like, ooh, it just made me think like, because I remember you released the letter and it was a whole thing, and I know those girls were devastated. Um, but they probably all graduated by now, huh? Because that was a minute.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

No, I still have a few more. Um, my last freshman class is still there, so I have about two more years before like everyone who was under me is gone. But I think I can like I feel confident in saying I feel like I gave them enough tools, um, just as women, not even for a dance, but just as women to be able to like adapt in any situation, even when things first happened. I was like, hey, well, not even when things first happened. When they got a new coach, I was like, hey, you know, this is life. Like, if if my boss decides to leave and go somewhere else or retire, I'm gonna get a new boss, you know, and this is like that's just kind of how life happens. But your job at the end of the end of the day is to show up the same way you I would expect you to show up any other way. And then if they expect something else from you, then like you do that, and you either you're gonna continue to be a part of the program because you can you understand and you respect what's happening, or if you don't like it, then you make the decision, you know, to leave. But I think that if nothing else, it was definitely a lesson um on all parts, you know, for sure, of just one maintaining creativity, you know, and understanding like the ownership piece of what you do and what you decide to give to a program, but then also on like not getting so attached. Because you literally, I was a part of the program when like the whole Grammy thing was happening, and we spent a lot of time together, like between just regular band stuff, doing the album, all the appearances and different things, on top of just the appearances for the dance team, it was non-stop for like four years. So, also when it happened, I can't say like it was a bit of a a breather a little bit because I didn't have anything to do for once. Like, it was just it was slow, and I wasn't just like running all over the place, you know. Cause I also worked a full-time job, so like that. I was worn out and didn't realize it until after.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

So, how did you fill the gap? What did you decide to do next?

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Um, I filled the gap by doing nothing. God was like, be still. Like at first, I was really upset and emotional, like just dealing with what happened, but then also it's it's the people. And it was like everywhere I would go, somebody would see me. They'd be like, Oh, Melanie's. And it's like, I don't need that. Like, I don't think you didn't know. Um, or even people that I didn't know, they would come up, they'd be like, Oh, yeah, I heard about what happened, and you know, there's like 50 billion stories out there about what happened, but I wasn't vocal about it, so it's yeah, it was whatever. Um, but it was that piece of it where I couldn't like I couldn't process and deal with it, and God really was just like, be still, like don't say nothing, don't do nothing, just be still. You don't need to do anything. I didn't know what I wanted to do either, so like that was the other thing, and it was just like there were there were still other things happening, but God really was just like, be still.

SPEAKER_04 53:23

But I mean, then later on, because I know that you're at the studio, and then you know, like what else are you doing now? Because you busy, you ain't chilling no more.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

All those things, well, no, that's the thing though, all those things were also going on while I was at TSU, so it's not like these are new things, these are things that were already still happening. If anything, I'm actually starting to let go of more of those things now.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

But yeah, so you were at the studio and doing all of that while also coaching the team and your full-time job.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Wow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

I wouldn't technically be at the show, but like just on the back end, like from marketing and programming and things like that, but and I, you know, for recital and all the big things, like, yeah, I'm there, but yeah, the all those things, those are nothing new, those were things that were already there and in place that I was doing.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Oh, yeah, you did need to sit down because I thought you just picked it, picked those things. Yeah, I thought you just kind of laid low and then you picked up these things, and it's like, okay, cool. But yeah, yeah, you definitely needed to sit down somewhere because that was for sure too much. It was that was too much. Okay, well, let me ask you this. How um, how did you and Diana meet? Because that was also like a big, you know, big thing when you guys first I read I never forget this. Somebody was like, oh yeah, because you know, you first got the gig, and then Diana was coming over there, and everybody was like, oh yeah, and then you know, there were so many theories about, you know, like how y'all got together. It my assumption, because I ain't looked this up, my assumption is that y'all went to Jackson State together. I mean, you know, or something like that. So it's like, so you do you realize that people can meet and just be cool? There can just be the energy match, and I mean, let's roll with it. Like, there is such a thing. So no, what was it?

SPEAKER_00 55:30

We have a long history. So I met Diana my freshman year at Jackson State. She was actually over the twirlers, so she did all of our costumes, all of our shirts. Um, she never she didn't twirl, but she would just make sure that we were good, make sure our routines, like everyone was together. Um, because you know, I mean, we can do it, but someone on the outside watching said, Hey, y'all aren't doing this the same kind of thing. But she would she would travel with us, she would be at all the games, she would light our fire for times. Um, so she was that person for the twirlers, she was our our sponsor pretty much for the twirlers. Um, and so that's how that relationship started, and from there it just kind of grew and cultivated over the years. And when I applied for the position, because I didn't tell a lot of people that I was applying, but I did tell her. And when I got the position, she was one of the first people that I told, and her first question was like, How can I help you? Like, what do you need? You know, she was like, Allow me to use like my resources and who I am, you know, to help you succeed. And so I sat down with her and I'm like, Hey, these are the things that I want to do. Um, she's one of those people, like, if I have an idea, I can bounce an idea off of her. She's gonna fill in the holes. Um, she's gonna be like, Yeah, that might work. Yeah, you might want to rethink, you know, this piece. But then also from a resource standpoint, for like uniforms and different things, it was like, here's this person for shirts, here's this person for costumes, here's this. And she would like can not just give me the information, but make the connection to introduce people and say, Hey, this is Melanie, she's the coach of the you know, sophisticated ladies, blah blah blah. And so then, like, that's where I started building my relationships with some of those people as well, because she made those introductions, and she was a very vital part in the beginning because I was like, I don't know how the heck I'm gonna do all these things right now. Um, so yeah, she was like, What do you mean? I'm there, period. And she was every every single time, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

And was because we were seeing it, and it was like, Dad, they gotta go on up there. They're gonna have all the girls. Ain't nobody going, they ain't gonna audition for nowhere else. Everybody's going here.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

That was a goal, and I can say too, like, even in the beginning, I told her I was like, Hey, well, she really told me because I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this, this, this, this, and this. And she's like, pace yourself. You're not gonna get all the things done in this first year, it's gonna take time. And true enough, it absolutely takes time. I feel like when I left, I was in my fifth season, and I feel like the ball was like officially turning for the sophisticated ladies, and like that bar had been set, so now people knew like what to expect from the sophisticated ladies because you've seen this consistency for some time now, and so she was a really big, a big part of that. I actually texted her today because I went to the National Museum of African-American Music, and there's an exhibit on the band, and one of the costumes that we created together is in the museum um as part of the exhibit. And so I was like, girl, look what we did. Okay, so it's like, but it's things like that though, going back to something we talked about earlier. I'm not a territorial person. In order for me to be successful with TSU, I had to have people with me. It wasn't a one-man show. Like, I had Diana, I had the Titans, I had Taryn with the Grizzlies, like I had all these different people that were pouring into me, even people that I've just kind of met along the way. When I was like, I don't know why I'm meeting you or why this relationship is so important and we're connecting, but like once I got into my position at TSU, I understood why I met certain people along my journey. So all of those people are part of why I was successful. I didn't do any of it by myself.

SPEAKER_04 59:41

There was there were so many, so many, I'm sure, stories as to, you know, like how this all took place. But definitely um, she seems to, you know, like I've I've met her in person a few times, but she for sure seems to be the person that definitely gives, like it's it's a very much like heart thing for her. Yeah, I love that stuff. Okay, so so here's um the last but not least thing I want to ask you about. Um your class is ending, and well, it ended, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Tomorrow is the last class.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:20

Tomorrow is the last class.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

It ended, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

Wait, when was it? When was the last class?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Tomorrow is the is actually the last class, but in my mind it's already ended.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

It ain't over if it ain't over. It is over. It's over tomorrow. So, okay, how did you come to terms that that tomorrow would be it though? That that you were just it it was time to close the chapter.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

I think going into it for the summer, I knew because at first the conversation was are we bringing this back? Because there's a team that does it with me. There's two individuals that help me teach. And it's like, you know, everybody keeps asking, and they were like, I get DMs all the time about you know having the class, and I would do pop-ups here and there, but it was never as consistent as before I started coaching at TSU. And I appreciate the fact that people enjoy it, but for me, it just is not fulfilling anymore. And there's certain things that I want to do that this class just doesn't align with. And so I think in even rebranding fifth quarter and rebranding myself and what's next, it's one of those things that would hinder me more than it would help me. Not because it's bad, but just because like it's it's run its course, and I don't get excited about it anymore. I love, I I find the energy to be excited about it because it does like because of how it makes other people feel, but at the end of the day, like doing it is draining to me. And so I knew once I started feeling like that, um it was time to let you know, it was time to let it go. It wasn't a bad thing, um, but it like it was just time. Even the people that help me, they're like, Well, I can just do it. And I'm like, yeah, no, I it's time to close that chapter. Um, because there's some other things I want to do, and I just that's where I need to spend my time and attention. And so this is the last, you know, the last one. Um, some people think I'm gonna stop teaching and coaching altogether, and I'm like, that is not what I said. I said I'm stopping classes, that is it. Um, but yeah, it's just it's it's time. I did it for a really long time, and this next chapter requires something different from me, and so I just I can't commit to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Ah well, I know you're a filmmaker, and in terms of your films, will we be able to see some of your um your film?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

So these are the projects, some future projects, yes, some past projects that were out legally, not anymore. Um, so yeah, but future projects are on the way, and those will be available soon. So I'm excited to talk about some of those a little bit later. But yeah, um, my documentary is just it's one of those things legally, it'll stay with me forever now at this point. And um, I think the project that I was working on with Diana that that stopped when all the things stopped. So, and then the other project I was working on, um, I kind of gave that one to another production company, and so they're gonna run with it, and hopefully we'll see something of that soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

But yeah, yeah, get us something. We need something. I mean, I I literally only unless you know of some, I literally only know of one documentary. I mean, for us, in terms of, you know, like for HBCU dance, and that's the one, you know, that Q does, or that did, or whatever. But outside of that, I mean, you know, they don't I've seen band ones, you know, like for instrumentalists, but I haven't seen dance ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Yeah, and that's why the project was so important to me because it hadn't been done, and it wasn't really necessarily just about the sophisticated ladies. I do think that the documentary I did off the because I can talk about it, but off the 50 was about like the scholarships that we were able to get for the sophisticated ladies and like get in that scholarship budget, and I do think that that was something that was really important because you know, like I know, like a lot of schools don't give scholarships or a lot I feel like more do now, but the amount of money that we were giving to girls was like unprecedented, and so I feel like shutting that down was kind of like a disservice really to the to the program, if nothing else. But I do want to see more from a film perspective about the dance lines that don't include the band and that also focus on the coaches, also, because there is a whole world that we live in. Um that is interesting, and not to even like just put it all out there, because I do think that some things should stay sacred when it comes to you know the dance line and the coaches and just that tradition and relationship there. But I do think that there's something to be said about the history of HBCU dance lines, and that story hasn't been told yet, but it's coming. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:56

But we need it, whatever it is, I know it's going to be. Great, and it is long overdue, and so we are looking forward to whatever it is because it's coming from you. So yes, you know, right, no pressure, no pressure. Um, so I know you have your um training center, and when you say center, do you mean like your own place, or you have like, is it a program that you have at the place where you have your classes, or how does the how does the tell us more about the training center so that we can make sure everyone has the information before we close out?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Yeah, so Fifth Quarter Auxiliary Training Center is a program. Um, I travel, but a lot of times I do most of the programming here in Nashville. So it's either um like group training for a team or a lot of it is talent development. So it's dancers who aspire dance for HBCU dance lines, or not even just HBCU, but college dance lines or pro dance. And so we help guide them through the process. Um, whether that's just training dance-wise, it's helping them with their application or parts of their application. A lot of times girls don't know like what a dance resume should look like. Um, so we help with that. So every aspect that you can think of from an audition standpoint, we help dancers facilitate that process. But then also on a more basic level, even with parents, is helping them understand the process, helping shift that mindset about training and the investment of training and what that looks like. And so that's really what fifth quarter is about is just developing and changing the mindset of how culturally like we look at training. And I love consultations with parents because you know, it's I'll give you 30 minutes of my time, but you know, just I ask all the questions because I think girls they pick schools based off of like what they're exposed to and what they like. And the first thing I always ask them, like, well, what do you want to major in? Does that school have your major? And they're like, I don't know, or no. I'm like, okay, what are we doing? Can you afford to go to that school if you don't have a scholarship? Like, there's so many different questions that need to be answered before we even decide we're gonna start training to go to this school. Because what are we doing? Does the school style your aesthetic? Does that dance team fit your aesthetic? Can you do those things? No, oh okay, because we we not learning uh fuites and stuff in two weeks, like it's just we're not doing yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

They they they are looking for miracle workers. You hear me? Miracle workers, and I'm not interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

No, very good because I can't help you. I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

Thank you so much, Melanie, for your time today. We had a really, really great conversation. I'm very excited about um people learning more about your fifth quarter um training center and all the things that the parents are gonna get from this experience as well as the kids. Um, hopefully some coaches too, because they probably need to sit in on a training of two, or even your films that are forthcoming. Like, just super excited about all the things and just the the things that the culture will embrace, period. Um, because I know you have so much to offer, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Thank you, girl. Thank you for having me. This was fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:23

Thank you so much for watching. Make sure you comment, like, subscribe, and follow us on Major Business Pod Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And see you guys next time.

unknown 1:09:42

Okay.